What Was the Cause of the Long Night?

The central hypothesis of the mythical astronomy theory is that many of the ancient legends of Westeros and the rest of the “Planetos” are actually telling us about the global cataclysm which is known as the Long Night through the use of symbolism and metaphor.  This would be consistent with mythology in real life, which is quite often based on observation of the heavens and the cycles and characteristics of nature and its forces.

In the first essay, I’m going to dive into the Azor Ahai / Lightbringer myth and try to explain how I interpret it to be referring to the events of the Long Night.  I’ll be comparing the various legends and myths of the story to the main characters and their symbolism, and to scenes which I think contain metaphorical references to the Long Night events.  As you’ll quickly see, I do not think George chooses his descriptive language haphazardly, but rather with the utmost intention.  The reoccurring turns of phrase that we find throughout the books create a tapestry of symbolism which is remarkably consistent, and I would suggest, meaningful.  For me, it all started coming together when I noticed that the moon cracks in both the Azor Ahai story and the Qarthine “origin of dragons” story…

For a more thorough discussion of George’s use of symbol, metaphor, and esoterism in ASOIAF, click the ‘methodology’ tab above.  If you’d like to hear about the evolution of this project, click the ‘about’ tab.  Otherwise, just dive on in to the first essay, or if you prefer, I will read you the essay aloud as you clean your house or drive to work.  That’s right, each essay has also been recorded as a matching podcast which can be found at the top of each essay page as well as on iTunes.

To be notified when a new essay and podcast are released, please follow the blog here on WordPress or subscribe to Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire on iTunes. The podcast RSS feed can be found here.

Mythical Astronomy & History of Westeros present…

Part 2: The Great Empire of the Dawn

Part 1: Asshai by the Shadow

Our collaboration with History of Westeros has become a two part series on the dragonlords of the Dawn Age.  These are available as a video or a podcast only, no accompanying essay.  You can watch here or listen on iTunes.  I hope you all enjoy it, we had a great time making it! Check out all the rest of the great History of Westeros videos on their youtube channel.

The Bloodstone Compendium

I: Astronomy Explains the Legends of Ice and Fire
II: The Bloodstone Emperor Azor Ahai
III: Waves of Night and Moon Blood
IV: The Mountain vs. the Viper and the Hammer of the Waters
V: Tyrion Targaryen
VI: Lucifer means Lightbringer

Sacred Order of Green Zombies

I: The Last Hero and the King of Corn
II: King of Winter, Lord of Death
III: The Long Night’s Watch

The Weirwood Compendium

I: The Grey King and the Sea Dragon
II: A Burning Brandon
III: Garth of the Gallows
IV: In a Grove of Ash

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Friends & Family


• The Last Hearth forum

History of Westeros

• Radio Westeros

• The Amber Compendium

Mythological Weave of Ice & Fire

• Echoes of Ice and Fire

• Blue Winter Roses

• Pawn to Player

• War & Politics of Ice & Fire

• Weirwood Leviathan

• Culture Wars of Ice & Fire

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91 thoughts on “

  1. Hey,

    I was just doing a little research on the Faith Militant and I noticed that the Faith is made up of the “Stars and Swords,” referring to the Poor Fellows and Warrior’s Sons respectively. I thought that their story made a lot of sense within your astronomical framework. In the original uprising, the Stars and Swords were eventually led by a Septon Moon, and Cersei describes them as being “drunk on the gods,” implying that they are the weapons of the moon, made up of the essence of both sun and moon. In the present, they are unleashed by the sun, represented by Cersei (the ruling lioness) as a weapon against the Tyrells, but also created by the attacks on holy men by the Lannister men (the brave companions). The Lannister attack on the faith creates a new uprising of stars and swords, mimicking the meteor shower, which then turns back on the sun (Cersei) by imprisoning and humiliating her, while solidifying their control of the capitol.

    The original uprising was spurred by some slights to the Faith, such as when Maegor married his second wife while his first wife was alive (a slight against the first moon? First wife, a hightower, supposedly killed by Maegor and second marriage resulted in a deformed baby). Maegor is described as cruel and had the sword Blackfyre bestowed upon him (Azor Ahai figure?) and used his dragon Balerion to destroy the Sept of Remembrance, fueling the rebellion of the faith. His coronation was also signaled by a flight of crows. Maegor died on the Iron Throne, perhaps slitting his own wrist on the throne itself, abandoned by family and hated by the Seven Kingdoms. He was succeeded by Jaehaerys (the last hero?) who, like the last hero during the long night, ended the faith uprising through diplomacy. Like the agreement between the first men and the children of the forest, the crown agreed to always protect the faith.

    What this implies to me is that the long night scenario is brought on by, and exacerbated by conqueror/fighter figures, and ended by diplomatic/scholarly figures. We sort of have this dynamic with both Jon and Daenerys, with Sam on Jon’s side and Tyrion on Dany’s side. It also implies to me that we are at the point in the story where Dany might use some pretty nasty force to destroy the son’s of the harpy and the slavers.

    Let me know what you think! I love your podcasts!

    Liked by 1 person

  2. ” In the original uprising, the Stars and Swords were eventually led by a Septon Moon, and Cersei describes them as being “drunk on the gods,” implying that they are the weapons of the moon, made up of the essence of both sun and moon.”

    Hooray for this find! I have caught on the symbolism of the Seven and the Sept and all that, but I had somehow missed that bit about Septon Moon, that’s really great. I can see you’ve got the basic idea of mythical astronomy down pretty well, which is my favorite thing ever. My goal is to mainstream this type of analysis so Martin’s true genius can be properly appreciated, and it’s just so fulfilling when really get it and make their own finds and bring them to me. I like the rest of your line of thinking too, but I had to highlight that one… I’ll give you a hat tip when I mention that in a cast, which I surely will. 🙂

    I agree with the “brought on by conqueror figures / ended by negotiators” idea – paging William Shatner!! That does seem to be where this is going. The idea of Jaehaerys as a LH parallel is interesting, because J & Alysanna famously took a bunch of dragons up to the Wall – they shut down the Nightfort, actually, or led to it by building Deep lake. You know what I think about parallels, so a LH dragon person heading north makes perfect sense, right? 🙂

    Here’s the thing which really makes sense out of the Faith: it’s my two moons theory. One ice moon, one fire moon, one solar king. A king with two queens, just like Aegon and Rhaenys and Visenya and many others in the story (no pun intended). Rhaenys would be the fire moon and her hill in King’s Landing tells the story – it’s a burnt and blackened former home of dragons. LOL, pretty on the nose. Rhaenys’ dragon was shot down from the sky by a bolt through the eye, and they landed in hell, so to speak (Hellholt and the Ullers). The same goes of the burnt out sept of remembrance – burnt by black dragon fire.

    Visenya is the ice queen – cold and implacable, and long lived. It’s the moon we still have, the one which didn’t die. Here’s where it gets good – the Warrior’s sons are perfect symbolic parallels to the Others. Mirror like armor, and that sigil: a crystal sword on a black field. That’s an Other’s crystal sword on a afield of night, which is when they come out. I mean… it’s right there. And they come from Visenya’s hill, from the snow-white marble of the Sept of Baelor. The poor fellows star sigil would seem to add to the star-eyes imagery of the Others, except they are red. That’s a bit of a fly in the ointment, but I also have ideas about what that might mean. I think it has to do with the weiwoods – white trees with leaves like bloody hands or bits of flame, and red stars that issue forth from the white temple, along with the Others. The Others are connected to the weirwoods in my opinion, so I think it has to do with this.

    Visenya also creates the Kingsguard, and the KG, like the Warrior’s Sons, are perfect Others analogues. Snow white armor as pale as the moon, that sort of thing. KG are called white shadows, just like the Others are. The ice moon is the mother of the others, just as the NK’s corpse bride – the moon pale maiden with icy skin – created others with the Night’s King.

    That’s a bit of a preview to my next essay (one of the next two anyway), so I hope you enjoyed it 🙂 Thanks for your analysis, I think some of it will prove useful to my essay. Cheers!

    Liked by 1 person

  3. HI LML, I was listening to your latest podcast and realised you were talking about ‘Monkey Magic’, which was originally a Japanese television drama based on the Chinese novel, Journey to the West, later dubbed by the BBC and therefore also shown in Australia (our ABC). It is hilarious, please please check it out on youtube, it’s about Monkey while on his redemption arc. Love your work, Linda

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I just wanted to thank you for the fascinating essays and the wonderful podcasts, so well done and so easy to listen to. Please don’t apologize for the length of what you write, anybody who is willing to read the many thousands of pages of Martin will be okay with long essays lol, and thank you for sharing them. I’m working my way through the books now for the first time, your ideas have made the reading so much more satisfying and the details so much more important and worthy of attention.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Thanks erico, I really appreciate what you’ve said here. 🙂 Great timing, too! Even if I am quite comfortable with long form analysis – and it’s really hard to analyze literature this complex in any other fashion, I submit – it’s all true that different people intake information in different ways. My goal is to turn on as many people as possible to the wonder of what Martin is doing with symbolism, so I am trying to think of different ways of appealing to different people. Some people really prefer quick hitting stuff, so I will be doing some things like that in the future. Hopefull I can rope them in to reading / listening to the longer stuff! I plan to use my youtube channel for short form ideas – think of a 15 minute summary on the basic comet / moon / Lightbringer thing. That would be fun and easy to share, without requiring someone to spend an hour or more reading my whole deal.

    Regardless, I really appreciate your encouragement. It’s easy to doubt yourself and it makes a big difference to hear people say “I really like what you are doing.”



  6. You are so welcome! I’m still pretty new to the whole online world around ASOIAF but there is no question that the quality of what you have done is definitely near the top. There are certainly text and video creators out there who have captured lots and lots of fans and clicks and likes etc, but I would not say that accurately correlates with quality lol. I can’t think of any podcast that I’ve heard yet that matched yours for content and excellence. It must have taken an enormous amount of effort, and yet your voice makes it clear how much you love what you are doing. I look forward to listening to each episode multiple times, the length is a comfort lol, they are so enjoyable. It would be awful if you ever took a lack of subscribers or followers or comments to mean that you were doing something wrong or that you weren’t successful in your efforts.

    I love how you treat the listener/reader as an adult, taking on a lot of complex subject matter in a way that draws one in and makes it accessible and fascinating, the opposite of intimidating. That takes skill and craft, a lot more than snark or comedy or some of the other more simple tactics that one can find all too easily lol. I’m not saying those approaches are wrong or even necessarily inferior, but there is a lot of that out there already. And its not about being snobby or pompous or elitist (which you can find easily as well when it comes to ASOIAF), you make the depth that you analyze compelling and attractive. Not once, as someone who has yet to finish the books for even the first time, did I ever feel talked down to, that you were a ‘book snob’ lol, that your work was not for the likes of me and way over my head. I can’t imagine I am or will be the only one who feels this way when they are lucky enough to stumble upon your work. The appeal is instant to anyone with genuine curiosity.

    I’m sure as a creative person that you will enjoy trying out different approaches and formats, but I hope you won’t feel that you need to dumb anything down, or just make short quickfire clips, in order to attract more people. It is exactly the grown-up approach to the books that I discovered by reading you and a few other bloggers that made me realize I was missing out, the books were absolutely worth reading. Its not wrong to play to your strengths and to your natural audience, which may in fact be people who love long books and essays, complex ideas, literary approaches, and listening to long podcasts.

    I just watched the TUN video on Blame of Thrones and it made me realize that until very recently I had mistakenly attributed so much of what I didn’t like about the show to Martin. Although I did enjoy the show a lot for the first few seasons, it has taken such a dive in so many aspects over the last season and a half, really depressing. That made me a show refugee lol, and sort of forced me to take another look at the books. I wasn’t ready to just let go of these characters I’d invested time in. I suspect I won’t be the last by any means, former show fans who discover the books many years late but all the more excited for it. Again, I think these people will be part of your natural audience, people who want far more than the show has offered. I really do feel lucky that while wading through the sometime cesspool of reddit (which really is a bit culty and disturbing to a noobie lol) I somehow found a link to your site.

    Apologies for the long comment. I guess I’m hoping that more detail about what I like about your work will encourage you and help you feel successful and appreciated by at least one sample member of your audience lol. Its a sad truism that controversy draws the crowds, while excellence is sometimes hidden in plain sight. Best of luck, I hope to ask you intelligent questions when I know enough to be able to formulate some lol;)

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Erico, I thank you for taking the time to write that very kind note. It was really encouraging and came at just the right time. It means a lot, thanks for reaching out and letting me know. The thing that drives all of this is enthusiasm – I have enthusiasm for the symbolic genius of George RR Martin, and getting other people excited about it is the main goal of all of my writing. Knowing that other people think this stuff is awesome too and seeing people get fired up about it makes me feel successful. I really think symbolic writing and art is of critical importance to society, especially in today’s day and age where a lot of emphasis is placed on rational, scientific, problem-solving modes of consciousness. Abstract and symbolic thought is a crucial part of the human existence and there are many concepts and truths which can only be communicated in this way – esoterically. Martin is participating in a grand tradition and it’s sorely needed today.

    I’m glad to hear I am doing a fair job of trying to unravel it all so far. I think I’ve gotten better at it over time. I’m also glad to hear you were able to get into it easily coming from a show-first background, that’s excellent. I’m glad some of this motivates you to get into the books, that’s really fantastic. So glad you did, welcome to the club! I suspect you are right, over time a lot of show watchers will begin to wonder about what those characters were like in the book, in the mind of the one who created them.

    All in all I’m very appreciate of your kind words and please don’t be a stranger!


  8. Hey LmL,

    I was just reading about Horus and thought there may be a connection between Horus’ eyes (right being associated with the sun, and the left being associated with the moon) and Eurons (right is “blue as a summer sky”, left is “black and shining with malice”)? Thoughts?

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Yes, absolutely! I have a big episode coming about the Gods Eye where I start with the sun and moon as the eyes of Horus, as a matter of fact, so you’re absolutely on the right track. Euron’s face is kind of a sky map, as are the faces of all the one-eyed people. Even the right / left thing is just as Horus is: left eye for the moon (and the left-hand path) and right for the sun. This also involves Odin, who gave up one eye to open his third eye, just as Bloodraven does.

    I don’t want to say more but you’re absolutely thinking in the right direction and I am sure you will enjoy that episode. The eyes of Horus thing was a big find for me, cool that you spotted it also. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  10. Hi LmL,

    Just found your site and theories, and i love them!! Ive been absolutely fascinated and definitely think youre on the right track with most of your stuff. I have trouble navigating your site, and can only find a few chapters, I’m not sure how many you’ve written. I have some questions and am curious if you have any chapters out already that talk about them. Do you delve into the history/symbology of the white walkers? Reading your posts about nissa nissa exposing her breast and being stabbed, i cant help but see the parallel with the children stabbing a man in the chest to create the first white walker. If your theories are correct, then they were both stabbed with this black oily rock from the second moon. This raises a few questions for me with chronology. If their stabbings are what caused the moon to crack, and the meteor shower from the moon is what brought the oily black stone, how did they already have the oily black stone before the moon cracked? I also wonder about your take on the long night, if the children made the others while being attacked by the first men, why was the first invasion of the others not for centuries after the first men and children already made peace? The fact that so many legends of azor ahai and the long night come from the east makes a lot of sense when explained as a global catastrophe, do you think that means the white walkers made it as far as essos and the bone mountains? I suppose if the long night lasted generations, that’s plenty of time for them to attack a majority of the world. Which makes me wonder how it all ended in westeros/how the children and last hero were able to confine them to behind the wall. On your reddit post, you linked to a friend who has a theory on the hierarchy of the others, which i liked a lot. I’m curious on your take on this, and how thats possible. It seems like the children made the first Other, who in turn makes the white walkers. Where do you see this female Other, or a potential entire tier of Others fitting in? Did the children create a bunch of Others before they realized their mistake? Does the first Other have the ability to create white walkers and Others? I’m confused on your stance on the dragons, do you believe they came to planetos with the moon cracking, or were already on planetos?

    The first few chapters I’ve read of yours are about the meteor impact and the mythology of the far East, leading up to the long night. I guess I’m really looking for information/theories more westeros based, and the events of the long night.

    I’m not sure if youve touched on any of this already, I’m happy to read those chapters if you have, i just cant find them. All you research is so thorough and knowledgeable, I basically believe anything you say as canon haha.


  11. Hey Logan! Wow, that’s a lot of questions you have there. I’ll do my best to answer them, and thanks very much for listening and corresponding!

    I’m not sure why you’re having a hard time with the navigation – all the chapters are right there on the right. I have six Bloodstone Compendium chapters which are intended to be read in order and build on one anther. I also have a one off with History of Westeros and and one off about George writing modern mythology which are stand alones. I will continue to do both one-offs and Bloodstone Compendium chapters, and will also start a new compendium here pretty soon.

    So far I have not talked much about the white walkers, greenseers, or weirwoods. Only in passing. I do indeed have a bunch of ideas about those and quotes pulled and analyzed, I’m basically just working my way there. I have to finish certain trains of thought before I can bring in certain new ones. I will however be getting to both he Others and the greenseers very soon, probably in the next two episodes.

    As for the HBO show’s idea about creating WW… I’d throw the caution flag on extrapolating too much, for on, but I do think it’s possible that certain ideas might be the same. For example, I do think the cotf, or at least someone using greenseer magic, created the Others, although it’s surely more complicated in the books. I also think it’s possible that black stone might have been used – not the obsidian the show used, but the oily black stones I love so much. I think the show simplifies magic related ideas, so they just used obsidian because that’s what people are familiar with. However it doesn’t make sense to create the first Other with obsidian when obsidian kills Others.

    As for the timeline, I think there is abundant evidence pointing to a needed reordering of the timeline. My hypothetical chain of events is this:

    Dawn Age – First Men in Westeros, people from Far East come there as well, build Battle Isle fortress.

    Azor Ahai breaks the moon, Long Night falls

    Others are created, Azor Ahai invades Westeros. Others might have been created to fight Azor Ahai’s dragon and fire magic based forces, hard to say

    The War for the Dawn happens, Long Night ends

    Pact is signed – man might have been wiped out if not for the cotf and therefore had new respect and gratitude towards them. That’s why the FM adopted the religion of the cotf

    Age of Heroes – as mankind rebuilds, all the current great houses are founded. Those founders of the great lines are he heroes of the age of heroes – Bran the B, Lann, Grey King, Garth’s children, Winged Knight, etc. After the big disaster is the right time for new houses to be founded. Anything from before the LN would be soon forgotten for the most part.

    So that’s how I see it. As for AA, I think he broke the moon not by killing NN, but by something more complicated involving the dragon horn. I think after he steered the comet into the moon somehow using magic, he fashioned a sword from the black meteorite that fell, and then killed NN to make it a flaming sword. That’s quite speculative – certainly not canon, lol – but it’s one example of how it might have played out. I think the scream in the Nissa Nissa story alludes to a sound being responsible for he moon breaking. The scream of the dragonhorn is describe like a sword, in fact.

    I also think the Nights King was involved in creating the Others during the LN, not after. It just makes way more sense that way. I think the Nights Queen might have been like a cold version of Melisandre, birthing white shadows (Others) instead of black shadows (Mel’s shadowbabies). I’m actually going to go into that in one of the next episodes. 🙂


  12. Hi LmL,

    Thank you so much!! I dont have a computer and read your site on my phone, probably why i have navigation issues. Thanks for compiling the list of essays youve written, that certainly helps, im excited to read your future ones! Thanks for answering my questions, youve definitely helped clarify things in my mind. These stories are thousands of years old, it makes sense the chronology is remembered a little jumbled. I like your theories and i cant wait to see how close to the truth they are.

    I’ll just have to be patient and wait for your next chapters to find out more on the ww, cotf, and greenseers. With all the evidence you’ve compiled showing a distinct oily black stone, i do like that idea. Definitely believe the show oversimplified the transformation as well, just used the basic idea that they were created by children. If it turns out to be obsidian, i dont think the obsidian will work against the Others, just the white walkers that were created the way crasters kids were turned? Maybe because they lack the obsidian in the heart. If your friends theory is true in the hierarchy of and difference between others and white walkers, as i tend to believe.

    Love your new chronology! Thank you so much for laying it out like that. The others created specifically against azor ahai and his damgerous flaming sword/dragons, awesome!! Love that idea. Definitely works with grrm concept of no distinct black/white, good/evil. Youve gotten me so excited again, thank you thank you! Amazing work cant wait to keep reading more of your compendiums!


  13. Well, with a name like Moonboy, you better believe there’s mythical astronomy going on! There’s actually some sort of theme going on with “the fool,”which seems to be an aspect of AA reborn (or one of them anyway), and Moonboy plays into that. I’ve come across the theme but haven’t done a full researching yet.


  14. Hey, LmL!

    I’m really glad you expanded on the idea of Dawn and LB, Nissa Nissa being a possible Dayne, and the Great Empire of the Dawn. I’ve been trying to find links between certain things and would like to hear your opinion on them:

    – If Nissa Nissa was in fact a Dayne woman who hailed from Valyria then could it be possible that Dayne is an adaptation of Nissa Nissa’s true name? Perhaps a name that shares a similar origin as Daenys/Daenerys? Could it be that House Dayne was created by a man named Dayne who was actually the child of AA/Nissa Nissa? That could explain the particular looks of the Daynes.

    – If Galladon of Morne was gifted the Just Maid by the Maiden then perhaps Azor Ahai did not forge Lightbringer. On top of this if, like you say, (if) Dany ends up with Dawn when she is in Westeros she has the possibility of facing a lion (Lannister) and water (Greyjoy). These are two of the three moments in creating LB according to legend.

    – The light absorbing stones throughout Planetos are almost always next to the water. GRRM takes influence from Lovecraft and Lovecrafts lesser-evil gods dwell in the ocean, take on forms like squids, and enjoy causing madness and chaos. This leads me to believe the stone that fell from the sky was an oily black stone produced by a kraken of sorts. It could also explain the black trees that create shade of the evening.

    – The people could have RE-introduced the ability of taming dragons to the Valyrians because all the dragons in east Essos/Asshai/Shadowlands became corrupt or unusable after the black stones/shade plagued the lands. Could it be that they needed the Valyrians to tame dragons because they knew of the second Long Night? Could the Doom have been caused as a way to stop another AA/Nissa Nissa rather than the FM getting revenge for the sake of revenge?

    – The Pearl Emperor is said to have built the Five Forts. These structures are made of fused black stone (dragonstone) but they are NOT made of the light absorbing oily black stone. He apparently built these forts to keep the Lion of Night’s demons out of their domain. These structures also look Valyrian in nature. Though they weren’t made around the time of the Freehold, the early days of the Freehold could have been modeled after the Great Empire of the Dawn pre-Bloodstone era.

    PS. I found this bit about Orryx (Elder God) and I feel as though, somehow, Quiathe has some relationship to this bit. I’m not sure what:
    Orryx: (The Bright Flame) manifests as a giant pillar of blinding white and purple flames. Although its expression is bright and blinding, no one feels its heat. No one can look at Orryx more than a few seconds; after the first glance, the eyes of anyone who looks become sore and watery.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. I never would have imagined I would enjoy this subject so much! Please keep the podcasts coming! Thank you and the Amethyst Koala for all your hard work, and please know you are very appreciated! :}

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Hello again, LmL. I’m currently working on what could be a solid theory that I believe correlates with your previous work. However, I don’t want to jump to conclusions and I want to make sure everything is coherent. So, do you think it is possible that Jaime and Cersei are children of Aerys II? Or that it is a real possibility…


  17. I personally do not think so. But don’t let that stop you, i could be wrong. However I think the information in TWOIAF might rule it out; I would research on Westeros.org to see if people have put that together, or take a look at the section in TWOIAF about Tywin and Aerys yourself. As far as symbolism… lots of people play into the fire moon or Azor AHai symbolism, so I can see why you might think they are dragon people. The Cersei burning of the Tower scene is certainly Targ-like. That’s why i say don’t let my opinion stop you. At least follow the train of thought and see where it leads… it’s only a theory right? You aren’t solving a crime or anything. No harm in exploring.


  18. My mind jumped to something when I first started reading these essays and I was surprised to see that the essays didn’t reach the possibility that I saw, though it could be something you are planning on addressing in the future.

    If the Azor Ahai prophecy/myth was misremembered and essentially inverted, what if the other two major prophecy/myths, Night’s King and Last Hero were also inverted? Both make sense but I haven’t yet done extensive research.

    What if the Last Hero went north during the Long Night looking for power to conquer his enemies, and the CotF gave him that power, but the power was becoming an Other and gaining any magic attributed to it. Perhaps an oily black stone landed in the Lands of Always Winter and the Children used a blood ritual to turn the Last Hero into the first Other. The Last Hero was said to have thirteen companions, and there is a very clear shot in the show that shows twelve Others standing behind the leader (the thirteenth had been killed by Sam). http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/f/fc/White_Walker_leaders_thirteen_at_temple.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150213013026

    What if the Night’s King wasn’t a villain. He was clearly sacrificing as Craster does. Perhaps the Night’s King actually ended the Long Night. Perhaps he made a pact between the Others, Children, and men, sealing the pact with a marriage. One possibility comes to mind that Alysanne ending the sacrifice in the Nightfort broke the pact with the Others, or perhaps something later broke the Pact (possibly during Robert’s Rebellion).

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Congratulations on another excellent series.
    If we a new Last hero going north with 12 men a horse and a dog.
    Would you have any objections to Bejen Stark having a second life in that dog ?
    A theory a came up with a while ago , the Last hero scenario gives his death some purpose.


  20. I’m a long time lurker never a poster on westros.org. I wanted to say that what you have written is amazing and eye opening for people like me who are novices to symbolism in literature. I will appreciate the books in a new way now. My interests have been physics and history in the past but now I add a another item to that list.

    I had a thought after reading your stuff I wanted to share. The only other fantasy I know even a little about is Tolkien, and GRRM has said he is “responding” to him. To Tolkien, the “fire of the gods” is industry, and it is simply a bad thing because he wrote in black and white. Think about what happened to the Shire.

    It reminded me of an on and off, half joking half serious debate I used to have with a friend of mine who thought the same way as Tolkien. He would say that industry/technology/expansion was bad because it would lead to humanity destroying itself and it bought out the greed and the worst in people. I would say that I did not disagree with any of that, but what happens if an outside threat emerges like, for example, a big damn space rock. We can either sit and sharpen our stone tools and wait to die, or build a spaceship, fill it full of nukes, and send Bruce Willis up to do something about it. It would usually get a laugh, but is also a real argument for “stealing the fire of the gods” so we can control our own fate. I like to think that my response to my friend is a simple version of GRRM’s response to Tolkien. Basically, if a comet/asteroid is about if hit the planet, what price would you pay to prevent it. It probably requires the Bloodstone Emperor to have done what he did to keep the comet from hitting Planetos, which we do not know, but I think it is interesting to think about.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Thanks very much for your comment, that’s absolutely the best thing anyone can say after reading is that it gave them new appreciation for the books 🙂

    I like your musings on the fire of the gods, although I am somewhat familiar with the idea of GRRM responding to Tolkien, I didn’t know about how Tolkien viewed heavenly fire and the idea of stealing it. I think your conversation with your friend is a good analogy, and lately I find myself more pessimistically siding with your friend, but that’s mostly due to the current level of environmental devastation and human misery inherent with global corporate capitalism. But on a more philosophical level, I’m inclined towards the Cathar interpretation of the Garden of Eden, which viewed the snake as the Lightbringer and the apple as the fire of the gods.

    I think Martin has essentially embraced the double edged sword idea, with his version being the sword without a hilt that is still better than no sword at all. It’s not that the fire is bad or good – he’s taking the nuanced view, hence his attraction to Venus mythology.


  22. Hi there!

    I have been trying to contact you for a request, but I haven’t been able to find any kind of way to do this. I am writting in the name of La Compañía Libre de Braavos, a new community in Spanish for the ASoIaF fandom. We really like your theory, which we first read on Westeros.org, and I have translated the first part into Spanish. We were wondering what would you think about us publishing it on our website, so people who are not fluent in English can also enjoy this interesting take that you have. Of course, we would link to you and credit you for your work.

    You can contact us via email if you would like to further discuss it. Our address is: companialibredebraavos@gmail.com

    We also invite you to check out our website if you want to know what we really do: https://lacompanialibredebraavos.tk

    Liked by 2 people

  23. Hey asharabrox, thanks so much for reaching out and I am flattered that you took the time to translate my theory! I’ve also got a friend translating them into Polish, of all things, so now we have Spanish too, that’s fantatsic. Your site looks great, although I am sure the quality of writing is lost by Google translation. I would love it if you posted your translation on your site, absolutely. I always say that my main goals are to get people talking about the concept of mythical astronomy in ASOIAF and turn people on to the genius of what Martin has done. I do not care nearly as much about getting everything 100% right or whatever. So, the more people that can be exposed to the main ideas, the better. Let me know when you have it up! Cheers!


  24. Thank you so much for your response!
    We are really excited about introducing this idea of yours into our community. The mythical astronomy in the series has never been discussed between our readers, so we really think it is a very interesting new take on the facts. Your work is esplendid, so we would like to congratulate you for the great analysis you provide.

    Part I of the Bloodstone Compendium is scheduled to air in a few weeks, but of course I will provide you the link when it’s finally up.

    I know I may be abussing your niceness (is that even a word? I think I just made that up xD) here, but I would like to ask another request from you. Of course feel no pressure to accept, I know you may be busy, but I lose nothing asking. The thing is, this would be our second translated essay in our website, and we noticed in the first one that we kinda lost that interesting feedback writer-readers. Would you be open to answer a few questions that our readers may have? Of course not all of them, we would pick like the 3 most interesting questions (or asked the most) and send them to you. I know I am asking a lot so I would totally understand if you refuse.

    Anyway, thanks again for accepting our proposal and we wish you the best of luck. You are a terrific essay writter!

    Liked by 1 person

  25. I’m just wondering – how hard is it to translate Mythical Astronomy to Spanish? Does the symbolism from original English version still work for you?

    When we’re translating to Polish, it usually works fine, but sometimes we have to explain some things or add English text with commentary. I imagine that depends on quality of book’s translation as well.

    I’m learning Spanish (since last September) but I’m not good enough to read or write something as sophisticated in it (at least yet, or so I hope).

    But being able to see MYTHICAL ASTRONOMY in Polish, English and Spanish at the same time certainly will help.

    Good luck 😉


  26. Thanks for the heads up! I see there’s a lively discussion going on. Sometimes I like to jump in, sometimes not. I want people to be free to have their opinions about the blog without me seeming like I’m running in to defend my ideas. It’s fun to se what people say, quite honestly! I’m always flattered when people mention my work, and I love it when people stumble across the lucifer = lightbringer connection. 🙂



  27. Yes, absolutely, I love answering questions. If you want to schedule a chart or live hangout or something, I can take translated questions from people as they come. Or you could post the essay and collect the best questions that come in the next couple days and send them to me, either is fine. Thanks for the interest, it’s tremendous! My #1 goal is for people to learn about this hidden layer in the story sot that they can enjoy everything Martin has put into it, whether I am right or wrong about any given idea. Everyone who likes ASOIAF should be enjoying these ideas and all the depth of the folklore and symbolism in ASOIAF, so thanks for helping to spread the word!

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Might it be possible that Ned Stark wargged into Beric via the weirwood network and then into lady stoneheart?


  29. Yeah I don’t know about all that. There are a lot of problems there: Ned never showed any signs of being a ward, let alone being able to be a green Seer who can bodysnatch people. I don’t think the deaths of Beric and Ned line up. I’d call that very shiny tin foil.


  30. Great choice in using Animals as Leaders! Ive listened to many ASoIaF podcasts and i have to say this is the most interesting one of all! Keep up the GREAT work!

    Liked by 2 people

  31. Right on Jacob, how many have you listened to?

    AAL is the best. I had a tangential connection to Tobin Abasi and just straight up asked him if I could use his music and he was all about it. Seemed like a great fit. 🙂


  32. LmL – You hear it all the time but really appreciate your stuff!

    What thing I’ve been struggling with is just a broad-scope sequence of events that fits with the legends, cosmic happenings, etc. I’ve given a 1 paragraph attempt below. What do you think? At this rough level of detail, what do you think is the rough sequence of events?

    GEoTD peoples expand across globe and somewhat peacefully meet CotF. Leader Amethyst Express learns of greensight and CotF teach her and others. Maybe AE and/or BSE/AA are known as Grey King. BSE/AA – her husband – takes it “too far” warging back into his own people and even children so he is effectively ageless (but still killable). Meanwhile more men keep coming. CotF create undead “child’s snow knights” warriors/Others a la TV show and cause(? Or coincidence) comet to hit moon (not sure what order?). Hammer of waters, floods, etc. Children build Wall with Others’ labor/ice magic to keep out men and angry AA/BSE/Grey King who becomes more evil, kills AE (via death by childbirth in which Last Hero is born). AA/BSE/GK however views Others as immortal and all powerful and marries one becoming NK at Nightfort. Meanwhile/previously, Others become uncontrollable in cold. Children realize their mistake and create dragons using something of cosmic origin and serpents of some kind e.g. fire magic. Children (Joruman a CotF perhaps?) switch sides (literally) and join Men (Last Hero/Stark/child of BSE/AA?) to unite and big battle is fought at Winterfell where hot springs and dragons give Children/Last Hero advantage. Then BSE/AA/NK/NQ and Others are driven north. Over time as the earth warms, Others retreat to heart of winter but can reproduce very slowly or not at all. Revenge is plotted and Others grow in numbers due to Craster (and other stolen wildlings). In the meantime Children and Men sign Pact. Dragons are destroyed for a long time.

    One (of many) things I haven’t quite gotten my head around is who built the Wall, when, and what role did it play during the Long Night and related battles. My strong assumption is Wall was built by Others or Children & Others using Ice magic.


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